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This has to be frustrating....
At 1:08 PM on Sep 29, 2005, Dan Thurman wrote:
Following is a very frustrating story and experience... (LONG!)
Frustration #1
====================================
1) Start a 'Dynamic Web Project"
2) Add a project name: "Hello World"
3) Add a new JSP file: index.jsp
4) Add new code, such as
pageEncoding="ISO-8859-1"%>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
Hello World
Hello!
5) On index.jsp, Run As-> Run on server...
6) Add apache 5.5 server, add "Hello World" context, complete dialog
7) Server starts up, but context (index.jsp) does not run... DRAT!
8) Go back to project root tree: "Hello World", click: Build Project
9) Stop server in server tab
10) Perform step (5)
11) Viola! Web page appears correctly.
Sheesh - this has got to be the most poorly planned/designed application
for web page designs. You have to remember to BUILD the application,
then STOP the server, then somehow try to get the changes published
then restart the server only via the index.jsp->Run As-> Run on server
pathway. This is not very intutitive....
Frustration #2
==============
1) Ok, I am "done" with Hello World project.
2) Close Project
3) ... Later ... I decided to review the previously closed project: "Hello
World"
4) Import... in Navigator
5) Select: 'Existing projects into Workspace'
6) Select the directory where your project was last located, select the
project
when it appears
7) Error Message appears: 'Resource /Hello World already exists' --
There is nothing you can do to get your closed project back into your
navigator, at least I could not find a way to do it.
Frustration #3
==========
1) With the following code, definition tags and the database
code are as follows:
WebAndSql
Date/Time:
var="mySqlDs"
url="jdbc:mysql://linux.cdkkt.com:3306/myTest"
driver="org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver" user="dbuser" password="dbpassword" />
SELECT * FROM cars ORDER BY carid
host:[linux]; MySql 3.34 Database [MySql JDBC
Driver;myTest.Cars]
2) When you add the above code to your file: 'index.jsp', and save
it, you may notice that the tags have yellow squiggly lines underscored
under them, and the "error message" balloon says: "Unknown Tags
(sql:setDataSource)" Hmmm.... so I am guessing that it means the
Apache Taglib library is missing? Ok... so maybe I have to add it
to my project. Ignoring and continuing to the next step...
3) We are using the default server: tomcat 5.5, so you can select
the project root tree, click the right-mouse-button, select 'properties'
and then select: 'Server'. Then make sure you select 'Apache Tomcat
5.5' in the Target Runtime textbox. Next, we need to add the 'taglib'
support and jdbc (database) libaries. Ok, click in the properties
window: 'Java Build Path', click the tab: 'Library', click: 'Web App
Libraries', click 'Add External JARs...' and then when the file-manager
pops up, go to the Apache Taglib v1.1 library folder and choose:
'standard.jar' and 'jstl.jar' and then click the 'OK' button.
Oh.... drat!!!! These jars did NOT end up in the folder I selected!!!
Drat!!!
Ok, remove these two jars from the general list! Ok, how about we just
create a NEW library?
Ok, trying that we will click: 'Add Library...', select: 'User Library',
click: 'User Libraries...' button, click: 'New...', and then type in my
new library for this project (I typed: myLibs), then click OK, and
my new library container was created. Then click 'myLibs' container,
click: 'Add JARSs...', then using the file-manager, added the following
JARs, 'standard.lib', 'jstl.jar'. Similarly, added my jdbc driver jar:
'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar', click OK and now all of my
needed jars are in 'myLibs'. Complete all the steps by clicking 'OK'
or 'Finish' buttons to get back into the project. Please note that the
'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops up and adds your new library (myLibs)
to your project list! So far, so good? Hmmm... but the yellow squiggly
lines are still there... how to get rid of this? Ok, right-click on root
project,
and select 'Build Project'... nope. Still there. Try again but with: 'Run
Validation',
hmm.... nope. still there...
Hmm, maybe we have to build this project, and publish it right?
Ok, right-click on file: 'index.jsp', and select: Run As->Run on server...
and then go through the dialogs ensuring that your apache tomcat 5.5
is setup and your project is selected and complete. Server starts up
and the web-browser appears and.... drat!!! Says that there is an apache
error and that the problem is that the jdbc driver could not be located!!
Drat, drat, drat! The yellow squiggly lines are still there too. drat!
Ok, so maybe my new library (myLibs) does not work like the way I
thought it would.... ok, lets get rid of it. Here is how:
Right-click on the project root, select 'Properties'. Click 'Java Build
Path'. Select: 'myLibs' and then click: 'Remove' button. Then finish it
all by clicking 'OK' Note: The 'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops up
and.... drat! 'myLibs' is NOT removed from my project list! How the
heck can I REMOVE IT???? By the way - if you go deeper where
we create that library in the first place - it is STILL THERE! Yes,
you deleted that library from your 'Java Build Path' but this is misleading
as you will see this by 'Add Library...->User Library and in the 'Selected
User Library', your myLibs container is still there! Dunno how to get
rid of this one...
Since I know previously, you cannot close this project and try to get
this project back into the Navigator, this is not the pathway to 'clean
up the junk' i.e. to remove the myLibs from your project list. I have
looked everywhere and fail to discover how to remove this library!
OK - I closed this project and started a new one and copied the contents
of index.jsp from the OLD project and into the NEW file and "started
over" entirely.
Now, instead of adding the needed tablibs and jdbc in your own library,
how about just adding it to the Webcontent->WEB-INF->lib folder?
Ok, doing that - right-click on lib folder, and select 'Import...'. Then
select 'File System'. When the dialog appears, select the last folder to
where each of the jar files are locate, and add them in. Make SURE
that it is the last leaf of the path, OTHERWISE sub-folders will be created
under the lib folder. (This is a REAL PAIN to use and you have to do this
seperately for each JARs located in various system-folder locations...)
Ok, so now I have added the 'standard.jar', 'jstl.jar', and the jdbc jar
for mysql: 'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar' into the lib folder
and checked that it is actually there via my windows explorer (because
the files do NOT APPEAR in the project window. It is mysteriously
missing!).
Now, it is time to build and publish this project....
Right-click: index.jsp, then select: Run As->Run on server...,
then complete the apache tomcat 5.5 setup - but wait!! It was
previously setup from my last project that I closed! Ah... ok
no big deal, so use the apache tomcat 5.5 and then make sure
that you remove the old published web-app, select your current
web-app, and complete. Tomcat server now starts running and....
drat! Your new project fails to run because it is NOT PUBLISHED!
DRAT, DRAT, DRAT.... ok. Sensing that the problem is with the
server used. Ok, make sure that you select the 'Tomcat v5.5 Server@
localhost' item from the 'Servers' tab (you can get this tab via Window->
Show view->Servers) and right-click and DELETE. Now that the server
has stop and has now been deleted from the 'Servers' tab list. We can
proceed to start over again.
Right-click on 'index.jsp' file, select: Run As->Run on server... and select
a new Apache Tomcat v5.5 server, check 'set server as project default',
'Next', make sure your web-app is selected and in 'Configured projects'
list, and then click: 'Finish'
The server starts running now, and is started, then the web-browser pops
up in Eclipse main pane, and now I see that my database access works
and my table appears and show the data just obtained from the database.
So all is well? Alas... no. My CSS/Styles code seems to be missing... no
coloration at all.. Just plain black and white. DRAT!! DRAT DRAT DRAT!!!
By the way, the yellow squiggly lines are still there in index,jsp file.
I am now at loss to understand the problem here.... back to the drawing
board
or -- maybe I will just quit and stop using Eclipse. It is just not
intuitive and the
learning curve is just... too painful.
Dan
17 replies so far (
Post your own)
Re: This has to be frustrating....
Hi Dan,Frustration #1: This worked for me. Open the "Project" menu and make
sure "Build Automatically" is checked, otherwise builds must be manually
invoked.
Frustration #2: The "Project Explorer" navigator that is a standard part
of the J2EE perspective is unique in that it tries to segregate projects
according to type. When you close a Dynamic Web Project, the "Project
Explorer" can no longer tell what kind of project it is, so it moves to
the "Other Projects" category. To re-open, expand the "Other Projects"
category, right click on the project and select "Open Project". Once
open, it will move back to the Dynamic Web Projects" category.
Frustration #3: I'll have to try that one later when I have more time.
Cheers,
Larry
Dan Thurman wrote:
> Following is a very frustrating story and experience... (LONG!)
>
> Frustration #1
> ====================================
> 1) Start a 'Dynamic Web Project"
> 2) Add a project name: "Hello World"
> 3) Add a new JSP file: index.jsp
> 4) Add new code, such as
>
> > pageEncoding="ISO-8859-1"%>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>
>
>
> Hello World
>
>
>
Hello!
>
>
>
> 5) On index.jsp, Run As-> Run on server...
> 6) Add apache 5.5 server, add "Hello World" context, complete dialog
> 7) Server starts up, but context (index.jsp) does not run... DRAT!
> 8) Go back to project root tree: "Hello World", click: Build Project
> 9) Stop server in server tab
> 10) Perform step (5)
> 11) Viola! Web page appears correctly.
>
> Sheesh - this has got to be the most poorly planned/designed application
> for web page designs. You have to remember to BUILD the application,
> then STOP the server, then somehow try to get the changes published
> then restart the server only via the index.jsp->Run As-> Run on server
> pathway. This is not very intutitive....
>
> Frustration #2
> ==============
> 1) Ok, I am "done" with Hello World project.
> 2) Close Project
> 3) ... Later ... I decided to review the previously closed project: "Hello
> World"
> 4) Import... in Navigator
> 5) Select: 'Existing projects into Workspace'
> 6) Select the directory where your project was last located, select the
> project
> when it appears
> 7) Error Message appears: 'Resource /Hello World already exists' --
> There is nothing you can do to get your closed project back into your
> navigator, at least I could not find a way to do it.
>
> Frustration #3
> ==========
> 1) With the following code, definition tags and the database
> code are as follows:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> WebAndSql
>
>
> Date/Time:
>
> > var="mySqlDs"
> url="jdbc:mysql://linux.cdkkt.com:3306/myTest"
> driver="org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver" user="dbuser" password="dbpassword" />
>
> SELECT * FROM cars ORDER BY carid
>
> host:[linux]; MySql 3.34 Database [MySql JDBC
> Driver;myTest.Cars]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2) When you add the above code to your file: 'index.jsp', and save
> it, you may notice that the tags have yellow squiggly lines underscored
> under them, and the "error message" balloon says: "Unknown Tags
> (sql:setDataSource)" Hmmm.... so I am guessing that it means the
> Apache Taglib library is missing? Ok... so maybe I have to add it
> to my project. Ignoring and continuing to the next step...
>
> 3) We are using the default server: tomcat 5.5, so you can select
> the project root tree, click the right-mouse-button, select 'properties'
> and then select: 'Server'. Then make sure you select 'Apache Tomcat
> 5.5' in the Target Runtime textbox. Next, we need to add the 'taglib'
> support and jdbc (database) libaries. Ok, click in the properties
> window: 'Java Build Path', click the tab: 'Library', click: 'Web App
> Libraries', click 'Add External JARs...' and then when the file-manager
> pops up, go to the Apache Taglib v1.1 library folder and choose:
> 'standard.jar' and 'jstl.jar' and then click the 'OK' button.
>
> Oh.... drat!!!! These jars did NOT end up in the folder I selected!!!
> Drat!!!
>
> Ok, remove these two jars from the general list! Ok, how about we just
> create a NEW library?
>
> Ok, trying that we will click: 'Add Library...', select: 'User Library',
> click: 'User Libraries...' button, click: 'New...', and then type in my
> new library for this project (I typed: myLibs), then click OK, and
> my new library container was created. Then click 'myLibs' container,
> click: 'Add JARSs...', then using the file-manager, added the following
> JARs, 'standard.lib', 'jstl.jar'. Similarly, added my jdbc driver jar:
> 'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar', click OK and now all of my
> needed jars are in 'myLibs'. Complete all the steps by clicking 'OK'
> or 'Finish' buttons to get back into the project. Please note that the
> 'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops up and adds your new library (myLibs)
> to your project list! So far, so good? Hmmm... but the yellow squiggly
> lines are still there... how to get rid of this? Ok, right-click on root
> project,
> and select 'Build Project'... nope. Still there. Try again but with: 'Run
> Validation',
> hmm.... nope. still there...
>
> Hmm, maybe we have to build this project, and publish it right?
>
> Ok, right-click on file: 'index.jsp', and select: Run As->Run on server...
> and then go through the dialogs ensuring that your apache tomcat 5.5
> is setup and your project is selected and complete. Server starts up
> and the web-browser appears and.... drat!!! Says that there is an apache
> error and that the problem is that the jdbc driver could not be located!!
> Drat, drat, drat! The yellow squiggly lines are still there too. drat!
>
> Ok, so maybe my new library (myLibs) does not work like the way I
> thought it would.... ok, lets get rid of it. Here is how:
>
> Right-click on the project root, select 'Properties'. Click 'Java Build
> Path'. Select: 'myLibs' and then click: 'Remove' button. Then finish it
> all by clicking 'OK' Note: The 'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops up
> and.... drat! 'myLibs' is NOT removed from my project list! How the
> heck can I REMOVE IT???? By the way - if you go deeper where
> we create that library in the first place - it is STILL THERE! Yes,
> you deleted that library from your 'Java Build Path' but this is misleading
> as you will see this by 'Add Library...->User Library and in the 'Selected
> User Library', your myLibs container is still there! Dunno how to get
> rid of this one...
>
> Since I know previously, you cannot close this project and try to get
> this project back into the Navigator, this is not the pathway to 'clean
> up the junk' i.e. to remove the myLibs from your project list. I have
> looked everywhere and fail to discover how to remove this library!
>
> OK - I closed this project and started a new one and copied the contents
> of index.jsp from the OLD project and into the NEW file and "started
> over" entirely.
>
> Now, instead of adding the needed tablibs and jdbc in your own library,
> how about just adding it to the Webcontent->WEB-INF->lib folder?
>
> Ok, doing that - right-click on lib folder, and select 'Import...'. Then
> select 'File System'. When the dialog appears, select the last folder to
> where each of the jar files are locate, and add them in. Make SURE
> that it is the last leaf of the path, OTHERWISE sub-folders will be created
> under the lib folder. (This is a REAL PAIN to use and you have to do this
> seperately for each JARs located in various system-folder locations...)
>
> Ok, so now I have added the 'standard.jar', 'jstl.jar', and the jdbc jar
> for mysql: 'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar' into the lib folder
> and checked that it is actually there via my windows explorer (because
> the files do NOT APPEAR in the project window. It is mysteriously
> missing!).
>
> Now, it is time to build and publish this project....
>
> Right-click: index.jsp, then select: Run As->Run on server...,
> then complete the apache tomcat 5.5 setup - but wait!! It was
> previously setup from my last project that I closed! Ah... ok
> no big deal, so use the apache tomcat 5.5 and then make sure
> that you remove the old published web-app, select your current
> web-app, and complete. Tomcat server now starts running and....
> drat! Your new project fails to run because it is NOT PUBLISHED!
> DRAT, DRAT, DRAT.... ok. Sensing that the problem is with the
> server used. Ok, make sure that you select the 'Tomcat v5.5 Server@
> localhost' item from the 'Servers' tab (you can get this tab via Window->
> Show view->Servers) and right-click and DELETE. Now that the server
> has stop and has now been deleted from the 'Servers' tab list. We can
> proceed to start over again.
>
> Right-click on 'index.jsp' file, select: Run As->Run on server... and select
> a new Apache Tomcat v5.5 server, check 'set server as project default',
> 'Next', make sure your web-app is selected and in 'Configured projects'
> list, and then click: 'Finish'
>
> The server starts running now, and is started, then the web-browser pops
> up in Eclipse main pane, and now I see that my database access works
> and my table appears and show the data just obtained from the database.
>
> So all is well? Alas... no. My CSS/Styles code seems to be missing... no
> coloration at all.. Just plain black and white. DRAT!! DRAT DRAT DRAT!!!
>
> By the way, the yellow squiggly lines are still there in index,jsp file.
>
> I am now at loss to understand the problem here.... back to the drawing
> board
> or -- maybe I will just quit and stop using Eclipse. It is just not
> intuitive and the
> learning curve is just... too painful.
>
> Dan
>
>
Re: This has to be frustrating....
Hi!Thanks for responding!
Frustration #1: Yes, it works but I was just pointing out and counting my
steps/actions and seems that I was taking way too many steps. Sorta like
golf -- the least # of strokes the better... right? heh heh So, I have to
mentally
remember to build, assign run file, and execute at least the first time.
Adding
an 'autobuild' is just a band-aid and does not solve the crux of the issue.
Seems
to me very counter-intutuive. We should be able to just select the file to
run via
a simple mouse selection, then execute. Why go through all that trouble to
"add
the build/configure/run" step per file selection then execute? If I wanted
to change
the build properties, then I should choose to do that seperately- why force
it every
time and as part of the 'run/debug' execution? I think a redesign strategy
should be
revisited here and seperate the build-configure step from the run step.
Frustration #2:
This is the point you are missing. The close project REMOVED the project
from
the list. It is NOT in 'Other Projects' so I cannot find this sucker! That
is why I
tried the IMPORT... pathway! I SEE my project is actually in my filesystem,
but
there is no way for me to get it back into the Eclipse navigator! The
IMPORT
error message was cryptic and I could have sworn it was a message from
planet
Klaxon.
Frustration #3: I discovered the color problem was due to a
code block where 'type=""' was myteriously
added in. Removing the 'type=""' code made it work again, so color
CSS stylesheets is not a problem if I implied that.
But, again, the 'yellow squiggly lines' are all still there and so this
tells
be that the editor is somehow not recognizing taglib code - even though
tomcat processed this just fine. Perhaps support is not yet available for
the editor. Beats me.
In summary of my journey - I learned that the only place to put the support
JAR files is int he WEB-INF/lib section and not with your own libraries as
it does not work quat this way, and that you cannot easily remove your
mistakes
once you add something in - as with the case of the Library. I also learned
that
you cannot move your projects into other folders after closing them because
metafiles
are being stored with the bundle. Seems to me that flexibility is somewhat
limiting.
One other thing annoys me about eclipse - is that it seems that all
projects are lumped
together in a flat-file hierarcy and I cannot create sub-folders to manage
them seperately.
An exception might be the J2EE perspective although 'Other Projects' will
show the "lumped
projects"
For example - I added the CDT stuff for C/C++ support so now I see that we
have C/C++,
Java, Web-stuff and so on so when I create a "C/C++" project, a Java
Project, a web project
and so on - selecting a perspective does not filter these projects
seperately but lumps them together
regardless of project types... Hmmm... annoying. I wonder if the Eclipse
communiity will be able to
integrate and sort these projects into proper perspectives so that they are
properly categoried and
intuitive otherwise just wait and see what spaghetti looks like and try to
find the missing meatballs.
Ah -- I have not given up yet. I have time as I am out of work seeking
work....
Here is the stylesheet code if you care:
.hdr{
color: #993300;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 16px;
text-color: #000000;
}
.table{
color: #FFFFFF;
background-color: #997777;
border-top-style: solid;
border-top-color: brown;
border-right-color: lightbrown;
border-bottom-color: lightbrown;
border-left-color: brown;
border-top-width: 1px;
border-right-width: 1px;
border-bottom-width: 1px;
border-left-width: 1px;
border-right-style: solid;
border-bottom-style: solid;
border-left-style: solid;
}
.titlec{
color: #993300;
background-color: #ffdd99;
line-height: 16px;
text-color: #000000;
}
.oddc {
color: #993300;
background-color: #ffffcc;
line-height: 16px;
text-color: #000000;
}
.evenc {
color: #993300;
background-color: #ffeecc;
line-height: 16px;
text-color: #000000;
}
"Larry Isaacs" wrote in message
news:dhhclq$k6v$1 at news dot eclipse dot org...
> Hi Dan,
>
> Frustration #1: This worked for me. Open the "Project" menu and make
> sure "Build Automatically" is checked, otherwise builds must be manually
> invoked.
>
> Frustration #2: The "Project Explorer" navigator that is a standard part
> of the J2EE perspective is unique in that it tries to segregate projects
> according to type. When you close a Dynamic Web Project, the "Project
> Explorer" can no longer tell what kind of project it is, so it moves to
> the "Other Projects" category. To re-open, expand the "Other Projects"
> category, right click on the project and select "Open Project". Once
> open, it will move back to the Dynamic Web Projects" category.
>
> Frustration #3: I'll have to try that one later when I have more time.
>
> Cheers,
> Larry
>
> Dan Thurman wrote:
> > Following is a very frustrating story and experience... (LONG!)
> >
> > Frustration #1
> > ====================================
> > 1) Start a 'Dynamic Web Project"
> > 2) Add a project name: "Hello World"
> > 3) Add a new JSP file: index.jsp
> > 4) Add new code, such as
> >
> > > > pageEncoding="ISO-8859-1"%>
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello World
> >
> >
> >
Hello!
> >
> >
> >
> > 5) On index.jsp, Run As-> Run on server...
> > 6) Add apache 5.5 server, add "Hello World" context, complete dialog
> > 7) Server starts up, but context (index.jsp) does not run... DRAT!
> > 8) Go back to project root tree: "Hello World", click: Build Project
> > 9) Stop server in server tab
> > 10) Perform step (5)
> > 11) Viola! Web page appears correctly.
> >
> > Sheesh - this has got to be the most poorly planned/designed application
> > for web page designs. You have to remember to BUILD the application,
> > then STOP the server, then somehow try to get the changes published
> > then restart the server only via the index.jsp->Run As-> Run on server
> > pathway. This is not very intutitive....
> >
> > Frustration #2
> > ==============
> > 1) Ok, I am "done" with Hello World project.
> > 2) Close Project
> > 3) ... Later ... I decided to review the previously closed project:
"Hello
> > World"
> > 4) Import... in Navigator
> > 5) Select: 'Existing projects into Workspace'
> > 6) Select the directory where your project was last located, select the
> > project
> > when it appears
> > 7) Error Message appears: 'Resource /Hello World already exists' --
> > There is nothing you can do to get your closed project back into your
> > navigator, at least I could not find a way to do it.
> >
> > Frustration #3
> > ==========
> > 1) With the following code, definition tags and the database
> > code are as follows:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > WebAndSql
> >
> >
> > Date/Time:
> >
> > > > var="mySqlDs"
> > url="jdbc:mysql://linux.cdkkt.com:3306/myTest"
> > driver="org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver" user="dbuser" password="dbpassword" />
> >
> > SELECT * FROM cars ORDER BY carid
> >
> > host:[linux]; MySql 3.34 Database [MySql JDBC
> > Driver;myTest.Cars]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) When you add the above code to your file: 'index.jsp', and save
> > it, you may notice that the tags have yellow squiggly lines underscored
> > under them, and the "error message" balloon says: "Unknown Tags
> > (sql:setDataSource)" Hmmm.... so I am guessing that it means the
> > Apache Taglib library is missing? Ok... so maybe I have to add it
> > to my project. Ignoring and continuing to the next step...
> >
> > 3) We are using the default server: tomcat 5.5, so you can select
> > the project root tree, click the right-mouse-button, select 'properties'
> > and then select: 'Server'. Then make sure you select 'Apache Tomcat
> > 5.5' in the Target Runtime textbox. Next, we need to add the 'taglib'
> > support and jdbc (database) libaries. Ok, click in the properties
> > window: 'Java Build Path', click the tab: 'Library', click: 'Web App
> > Libraries', click 'Add External JARs...' and then when the file-manager
> > pops up, go to the Apache Taglib v1.1 library folder and choose:
> > 'standard.jar' and 'jstl.jar' and then click the 'OK' button.
> >
> > Oh.... drat!!!! These jars did NOT end up in the folder I selected!!!
> > Drat!!!
> >
> > Ok, remove these two jars from the general list! Ok, how about we just
> > create a NEW library?
> >
> > Ok, trying that we will click: 'Add Library...', select: 'User Library',
> > click: 'User Libraries...' button, click: 'New...', and then type in my
> > new library for this project (I typed: myLibs), then click OK, and
> > my new library container was created. Then click 'myLibs' container,
> > click: 'Add JARSs...', then using the file-manager, added the following
> > JARs, 'standard.lib', 'jstl.jar'. Similarly, added my jdbc driver jar:
> > 'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar', click OK and now all of my
> > needed jars are in 'myLibs'. Complete all the steps by clicking 'OK'
> > or 'Finish' buttons to get back into the project. Please note that the
> > 'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops up and adds your new library
(myLibs)
> > to your project list! So far, so good? Hmmm... but the yellow
squiggly
> > lines are still there... how to get rid of this? Ok, right-click on
root
> > project,
> > and select 'Build Project'... nope. Still there. Try again but with:
'Run
> > Validation',
> > hmm.... nope. still there...
> >
> > Hmm, maybe we have to build this project, and publish it right?
> >
> > Ok, right-click on file: 'index.jsp', and select: Run As->Run on
server...
> > and then go through the dialogs ensuring that your apache tomcat 5.5
> > is setup and your project is selected and complete. Server starts up
> > and the web-browser appears and.... drat!!! Says that there is an
apache
> > error and that the problem is that the jdbc driver could not be
located!!
> > Drat, drat, drat! The yellow squiggly lines are still there too. drat!
> >
> > Ok, so maybe my new library (myLibs) does not work like the way I
> > thought it would.... ok, lets get rid of it. Here is how:
> >
> > Right-click on the project root, select 'Properties'. Click 'Java Build
> > Path'. Select: 'myLibs' and then click: 'Remove' button. Then finish
it
> > all by clicking 'OK' Note: The 'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops up
> > and.... drat! 'myLibs' is NOT removed from my project list! How the
> > heck can I REMOVE IT???? By the way - if you go deeper where
> > we create that library in the first place - it is STILL THERE! Yes,
> > you deleted that library from your 'Java Build Path' but this is
misleading
> > as you will see this by 'Add Library...->User Library and in the
'Selected
> > User Library', your myLibs container is still there! Dunno how to get
> > rid of this one...
> >
> > Since I know previously, you cannot close this project and try to get
> > this project back into the Navigator, this is not the pathway to 'clean
> > up the junk' i.e. to remove the myLibs from your project list. I have
> > looked everywhere and fail to discover how to remove this library!
> >
> > OK - I closed this project and started a new one and copied the contents
> > of index.jsp from the OLD project and into the NEW file and "started
> > over" entirely.
> >
> > Now, instead of adding the needed tablibs and jdbc in your own library,
> > how about just adding it to the Webcontent->WEB-INF->lib folder?
> >
> > Ok, doing that - right-click on lib folder, and select 'Import...'.
Then
> > select 'File System'. When the dialog appears, select the last folder
to
> > where each of the jar files are locate, and add them in. Make SURE
> > that it is the last leaf of the path, OTHERWISE sub-folders will be
created
> > under the lib folder. (This is a REAL PAIN to use and you have to do
this
> > seperately for each JARs located in various system-folder locations...)
> >
> > Ok, so now I have added the 'standard.jar', 'jstl.jar', and the jdbc jar
> > for mysql: 'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar' into the lib folder
> > and checked that it is actually there via my windows explorer (because
> > the files do NOT APPEAR in the project window. It is mysteriously
> > missing!).
> >
> > Now, it is time to build and publish this project....
> >
> > Right-click: index.jsp, then select: Run As->Run on server...,
> > then complete the apache tomcat 5.5 setup - but wait!! It was
> > previously setup from my last project that I closed! Ah... ok
> > no big deal, so use the apache tomcat 5.5 and then make sure
> > that you remove the old published web-app, select your current
> > web-app, and complete. Tomcat server now starts running and....
> > drat! Your new project fails to run because it is NOT PUBLISHED!
> > DRAT, DRAT, DRAT.... ok. Sensing that the problem is with the
> > server used. Ok, make sure that you select the 'Tomcat v5.5 Server@
> > localhost' item from the 'Servers' tab (you can get this tab via
Window->
> > Show view->Servers) and right-click and DELETE. Now that the server
> > has stop and has now been deleted from the 'Servers' tab list. We can
> > proceed to start over again.
> >
> > Right-click on 'index.jsp' file, select: Run As->Run on server... and
select
> > a new Apache Tomcat v5.5 server, check 'set server as project default',
> > 'Next', make sure your web-app is selected and in 'Configured projects'
> > list, and then click: 'Finish'
> >
> > The server starts running now, and is started, then the web-browser pops
> > up in Eclipse main pane, and now I see that my database access works
> > and my table appears and show the data just obtained from the database.
> >
> > So all is well? Alas... no. My CSS/Styles code seems to be missing...
no
> > coloration at all.. Just plain black and white. DRAT!! DRAT DRAT
DRAT!!!
> >
> > By the way, the yellow squiggly lines are still there in index,jsp file.
> >
> > I am now at loss to understand the problem here.... back to the drawing
> > board
> > or -- maybe I will just quit and stop using Eclipse. It is just not
> > intuitive and the
> > learning curve is just... too painful.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
Re: This has to be frustrating....
Sorry but I had to add more tidbits here.
I was investigating the 'Open Projects' and from what I discovered is that
the reason why I did not see the 'Open Projects' menu item in the 'Other
Projects' folder is because there was two 'Server' projects that was in it
and this prevented 'Open Projects' from being seen as a menu item!
I tested this further. I closed the two 'Servers' projects and noticed that
the
'Open Projects' menu item appeared. So selecting this menu item, it
proceeded
to tell me that some of the projects it was looking for was missing and it
stopped
dead right there! I remembered that I moved this projected to an archived
folder!
If I had deleted this project then I would be dead in the water! SO -- I
moved ALL
my projects into the common area and noticed that again, I had to delete all
imported
projects in order to get access to the 'Open Projects' menu item! BLEH!!!
That is
very poor design! Anyway - I then discovered that it tries to import all
the projects
it knows about and yet - if one is missing/broken - it stops dead right
there and even
though I have many more projects, I cannot have it unless the offending
project is fixed.
It appears to be in serial fashion and won't let me have all of my projects.
So in a nutshell
I am dead in the water. If you delete an old project manually outside of
Ecilpse then you
may be shooting yourself in the foot, so it seems.
I am guessing that I will need to go through the metafiles and search and
locate these
"projects" and remove them from the search list - again - another very poor
design
decision. Moving projects around is a no no for Eclipse since metafiles are
not flexible
at all and there are no mechanisms to proceed, delete, skip, or otherwise
allow you to
continue on without being knowledgeable about metafiles and if you are
lucky, you may
not destroy your eclipse enviroment/settings altogether. Sigh....
Dan
"Dan Thurman" wrote in message
news:dhhjdi$udv$1 at news dot eclipse dot org...
> Hi!
>
> Thanks for responding!
>
> Frustration #1: Yes, it works but I was just pointing out and counting my
> steps/actions and seems that I was taking way too many steps. Sorta like
> golf -- the least # of strokes the better... right? heh heh So, I have
to
> mentally
> remember to build, assign run file, and execute at least the first time.
> Adding
> an 'autobuild' is just a band-aid and does not solve the crux of the
issue.
> Seems
> to me very counter-intutuive. We should be able to just select the file
to
> run via
> a simple mouse selection, then execute. Why go through all that trouble
to
> "add
> the build/configure/run" step per file selection then execute? If I
wanted
> to change
> the build properties, then I should choose to do that seperately- why
force
> it every
> time and as part of the 'run/debug' execution? I think a redesign
strategy
> should be
> revisited here and seperate the build-configure step from the run step.
>
> Frustration #2:
>
> This is the point you are missing. The close project REMOVED the project
> from
> the list. It is NOT in 'Other Projects' so I cannot find this sucker!
That
> is why I
> tried the IMPORT... pathway! I SEE my project is actually in my
filesystem,
> but
> there is no way for me to get it back into the Eclipse navigator! The
> IMPORT
> error message was cryptic and I could have sworn it was a message from
> planet
> Klaxon. :-)
>
> Frustration #3: I discovered the color problem was due to a
> code block where 'type=""' was myteriously
> added in. Removing the 'type=""' code made it work again, so color
> CSS stylesheets is not a problem if I implied that. :-(
>
> But, again, the 'yellow squiggly lines' are all still there and so this
> tells
> be that the editor is somehow not recognizing taglib code - even though
> tomcat processed this just fine. Perhaps support is not yet available for
> the editor. Beats me.
>
> In summary of my journey - I learned that the only place to put the
support
> JAR files is int he WEB-INF/lib section and not with your own libraries as
> it does not work quat this way, and that you cannot easily remove your
> mistakes
> once you add something in - as with the case of the Library. I also
learned
> that
> you cannot move your projects into other folders after closing them
because
> metafiles
> are being stored with the bundle. Seems to me that flexibility is
somewhat
> limiting.
> One other thing annoys me about eclipse - is that it seems that all
> projects are lumped
> together in a flat-file hierarcy and I cannot create sub-folders to manage
> them seperately.
> An exception might be the J2EE perspective although 'Other Projects' will
> show the "lumped
> projects"
>
> For example - I added the CDT stuff for C/C++ support so now I see that we
> have C/C++,
> Java, Web-stuff and so on so when I create a "C/C++" project, a Java
> Project, a web project
> and so on - selecting a perspective does not filter these projects
> seperately but lumps them together
> regardless of project types... Hmmm... annoying. I wonder if the Eclipse
> communiity will be able to
> integrate and sort these projects into proper perspectives so that they
are
> properly categoried and
> intuitive otherwise just wait and see what spaghetti looks like and try to
> find the missing meatballs. :-)
>
> Ah -- I have not given up yet. I have time as I am out of work seeking
> work....
>
> Here is the stylesheet code if you care:
>
>
> .hdr{
> color: #993300;
> font-weight: bold;
> line-height: 16px;
> text-color: #000000;
> }
> .table{
> color: #FFFFFF;
> background-color: #997777;
> border-top-style: solid;
> border-top-color: brown;
> border-right-color: lightbrown;
> border-bottom-color: lightbrown;
> border-left-color: brown;
> border-top-width: 1px;
> border-right-width: 1px;
> border-bottom-width: 1px;
> border-left-width: 1px;
> border-right-style: solid;
> border-bottom-style: solid;
> border-left-style: solid;
> }
> .titlec{
> color: #993300;
> background-color: #ffdd99;
> line-height: 16px;
> text-color: #000000;
> }
> .oddc {
> color: #993300;
> background-color: #ffffcc;
> line-height: 16px;
> text-color: #000000;
> }
> .evenc {
> color: #993300;
> background-color: #ffeecc;
> line-height: 16px;
> text-color: #000000;
> }
>
>
>
>
> "Larry Isaacs" wrote in message
> news:dhhclq$k6v$1 at news dot eclipse dot org...
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > Frustration #1: This worked for me. Open the "Project" menu and make
> > sure "Build Automatically" is checked, otherwise builds must be manually
> > invoked.
> >
> > Frustration #2: The "Project Explorer" navigator that is a standard part
> > of the J2EE perspective is unique in that it tries to segregate projects
> > according to type. When you close a Dynamic Web Project, the "Project
> > Explorer" can no longer tell what kind of project it is, so it moves to
> > the "Other Projects" category. To re-open, expand the "Other Projects"
> > category, right click on the project and select "Open Project". Once
> > open, it will move back to the Dynamic Web Projects" category.
> >
> > Frustration #3: I'll have to try that one later when I have more time.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Larry
> >
> > Dan Thurman wrote:
> > > Following is a very frustrating story and experience... (LONG!)
> > >
> > > Frustration #1
> > > ====================================
> > > 1) Start a 'Dynamic Web Project"
> > > 2) Add a project name: "Hello World"
> > > 3) Add a new JSP file: index.jsp
> > > 4) Add new code, such as
> > >
> > > > > > pageEncoding="ISO-8859-1"%>
> > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello World
> > >
> > >
> > >
Hello!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 5) On index.jsp, Run As-> Run on server...
> > > 6) Add apache 5.5 server, add "Hello World" context, complete dialog
> > > 7) Server starts up, but context (index.jsp) does not run... DRAT!
> > > 8) Go back to project root tree: "Hello World", click: Build Project
> > > 9) Stop server in server tab
> > > 10) Perform step (5)
> > > 11) Viola! Web page appears correctly.
> > >
> > > Sheesh - this has got to be the most poorly planned/designed
application
> > > for web page designs. You have to remember to BUILD the application,
> > > then STOP the server, then somehow try to get the changes published
> > > then restart the server only via the index.jsp->Run As-> Run on server
> > > pathway. This is not very intutitive....
> > >
> > > Frustration #2
> > > ==============
> > > 1) Ok, I am "done" with Hello World project.
> > > 2) Close Project
> > > 3) ... Later ... I decided to review the previously closed project:
> "Hello
> > > World"
> > > 4) Import... in Navigator
> > > 5) Select: 'Existing projects into Workspace'
> > > 6) Select the directory where your project was last located, select
the
> > > project
> > > when it appears
> > > 7) Error Message appears: 'Resource /Hello World already exists' --
> > > There is nothing you can do to get your closed project back into your
> > > navigator, at least I could not find a way to do it.
> > >
> > > Frustration #3
> > > ==========
> > > 1) With the following code, definition tags and the database
> > > code are as follows:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > WebAndSql
> > >
> > >
> > > Date/Time:
> > >
> > > > > > var="mySqlDs"
> > > url="jdbc:mysql://linux.cdkkt.com:3306/myTest"
> > > driver="org.gjt.mm.mysql.Driver" user="dbuser" password="dbpassword"
/>
> > >
> > > SELECT * FROM cars ORDER BY carid
> > >
> > > host:[linux]; MySql 3.34 Database [MySql JDBC
> > > Driver;myTest.Cars]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) When you add the above code to your file: 'index.jsp', and save
> > > it, you may notice that the tags have yellow squiggly lines
underscored
> > > under them, and the "error message" balloon says: "Unknown Tags
> > > (sql:setDataSource)" Hmmm.... so I am guessing that it means the
> > > Apache Taglib library is missing? Ok... so maybe I have to add it
> > > to my project. Ignoring and continuing to the next step...
> > >
> > > 3) We are using the default server: tomcat 5.5, so you can select
> > > the project root tree, click the right-mouse-button, select
'properties'
> > > and then select: 'Server'. Then make sure you select 'Apache Tomcat
> > > 5.5' in the Target Runtime textbox. Next, we need to add the 'taglib'
> > > support and jdbc (database) libaries. Ok, click in the properties
> > > window: 'Java Build Path', click the tab: 'Library', click: 'Web App
> > > Libraries', click 'Add External JARs...' and then when the
file-manager
> > > pops up, go to the Apache Taglib v1.1 library folder and choose:
> > > 'standard.jar' and 'jstl.jar' and then click the 'OK' button.
> > >
> > > Oh.... drat!!!! These jars did NOT end up in the folder I selected!!!
> > > Drat!!!
> > >
> > > Ok, remove these two jars from the general list! Ok, how about we
just
> > > create a NEW library?
> > >
> > > Ok, trying that we will click: 'Add Library...', select: 'User
Library',
> > > click: 'User Libraries...' button, click: 'New...', and then type in
my
> > > new library for this project (I typed: myLibs), then click OK, and
> > > my new library container was created. Then click 'myLibs' container,
> > > click: 'Add JARSs...', then using the file-manager, added the
following
> > > JARs, 'standard.lib', 'jstl.jar'. Similarly, added my jdbc driver
jar:
> > > 'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar', click OK and now all of my
> > > needed jars are in 'myLibs'. Complete all the steps by clicking 'OK'
> > > or 'Finish' buttons to get back into the project. Please note that
the
> > > 'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops up and adds your new library
> (myLibs)
> > > to your project list! So far, so good? Hmmm... but the yellow
> squiggly
> > > lines are still there... how to get rid of this? Ok, right-click on
> root
> > > project,
> > > and select 'Build Project'... nope. Still there. Try again but
with:
> 'Run
> > > Validation',
> > > hmm.... nope. still there...
> > >
> > > Hmm, maybe we have to build this project, and publish it right?
> > >
> > > Ok, right-click on file: 'index.jsp', and select: Run As->Run on
> server...
> > > and then go through the dialogs ensuring that your apache tomcat 5.5
> > > is setup and your project is selected and complete. Server starts up
> > > and the web-browser appears and.... drat!!! Says that there is an
> apache
> > > error and that the problem is that the jdbc driver could not be
> located!!
> > > Drat, drat, drat! The yellow squiggly lines are still there too.
drat!
> > >
> > > Ok, so maybe my new library (myLibs) does not work like the way I
> > > thought it would.... ok, lets get rid of it. Here is how:
> > >
> > > Right-click on the project root, select 'Properties'. Click 'Java
Build
> > > Path'. Select: 'myLibs' and then click: 'Remove' button. Then finish
> it
> > > all by clicking 'OK' Note: The 'Setting Build Path...' dialog pops
up
> > > and.... drat! 'myLibs' is NOT removed from my project list! How the
> > > heck can I REMOVE IT???? By the way - if you go deeper where
> > > we create that library in the first place - it is STILL THERE! Yes,
> > > you deleted that library from your 'Java Build Path' but this is
> misleading
> > > as you will see this by 'Add Library...->User Library and in the
> 'Selected
> > > User Library', your myLibs container is still there! Dunno how to get
> > > rid of this one...
> > >
> > > Since I know previously, you cannot close this project and try to get
> > > this project back into the Navigator, this is not the pathway to
'clean
> > > up the junk' i.e. to remove the myLibs from your project list. I have
> > > looked everywhere and fail to discover how to remove this library!
> > >
> > > OK - I closed this project and started a new one and copied the
contents
> > > of index.jsp from the OLD project and into the NEW file and "started
> > > over" entirely.
> > >
> > > Now, instead of adding the needed tablibs and jdbc in your own
library,
> > > how about just adding it to the Webcontent->WEB-INF->lib folder?
> > >
> > > Ok, doing that - right-click on lib folder, and select 'Import...'.
> Then
> > > select 'File System'. When the dialog appears, select the last folder
> to
> > > where each of the jar files are locate, and add them in. Make SURE
> > > that it is the last leaf of the path, OTHERWISE sub-folders will be
> created
> > > under the lib folder. (This is a REAL PAIN to use and you have to do
> this
> > > seperately for each JARs located in various system-folder
locations...)
> > >
> > > Ok, so now I have added the 'standard.jar', 'jstl.jar', and the jdbc
jar
> > > for mysql: 'mysql-connector-javaX-X-X-bin.jar' into the lib folder
> > > and checked that it is actually there via my windows explorer (because
> > > the files do NOT APPEAR in the project window. It is mysteriously
> > > missing!).
> > >
> > > Now, it is time to build and publish this project....
> > >
> > > Right-click: index.jsp, then select: Run As->Run on server...,
> > > then complete the apache tomcat 5.5 setup - but wait!! It was
> > > previously setup from my last project that I closed! Ah... ok
> > > no big deal, so use the apache tomcat 5.5 and then make sure
> > > that you remove the old published web-app, select your current
> > > web-app, and complete. Tomcat server now starts running and....
> > > drat! Your new project fails to run because it is NOT PUBLISHED!
> > > DRAT, DRAT, DRAT.... ok. Sensing that the problem is with the
> > > server used. Ok, make sure that you select the 'Tomcat v5.5 Server@
> > > localhost' item from the 'Servers' tab (you can get this tab via
> Window->
> > > Show view->Servers) and right-click and DELETE. Now that the server
> > > has stop and has now been deleted from the 'Servers' tab list. We can
> > > proceed to start over again.
> > >
> > > Right-click on 'index.jsp' file, select: Run As->Run on server... and
> select
> > > a new Apache Tomcat v5.5 server, check 'set server as project
default',
> > > 'Next', make sure your web-app is selected and in 'Configured
projects'
> > > list, and then click: 'Finish'
> > >
> > > The server starts running now, and is started, then the web-browser
pops
> > > up in Eclipse main pane, and now I see that my database access works
> > > and my table appears and show the data just obtained from the
database.
> > >
> > > So all is well? Alas... no. My CSS/Styles code seems to be
missing...
> no
> > > coloration at all.. Just plain black and white. DRAT!! DRAT DRAT
> DRAT!!!
> > >
> > > By the way, the yellow squiggly lines are still there in index,jsp
file.
> > >
> > > I am now at loss to understand the problem here.... back to the
drawing
> > > board
> > > or -- maybe I will just quit and stop using Eclipse. It is just not
> > > intuitive and the
> > > learning curve is just... too painful.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > >
> > >
>
>
Re: This has to be frustrating....
Eclipse would prefer you move projects around using Eclipse (Refactor > Move or Rename), but if you do it with your operating system (mv command, file explorer, etc.) then you need to do a Refresh in Eclipse to force a cache update (click on a project and press F5). On Windows there's a way to make it do this automatically in the preferences but IIRC it's off by default.HTH,
--Ed
Author, Google Web Toolkit, Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide, Eclipse in Action
ZDNet blogger, Dev Connection; former Top Eclipse Ambassador.
Re: This has to be frustrating....
Hi Dan,You might enjoy this thread:
http://www.eclipsezone.com/eclipse/forums/m91936703.html
mentioning this one:
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/bleonard/archive/2005/09/netbeans_take_2.html
Let us know if the comparison is fair, and if you have some free cycles, how NetBeans could do even better there.
My goal is to help the J2EE developers now. Then the Java EE 5 developers very soon, so your feedback is valuable...very valuable.
Thanks,
Ludo
Re: This has to be frustrating....
> Let us know if the comparison is fair, and if you> have some free cycles, how NetBeans could do even
> better there.
How about you ask *Netbeans* users how *Netbeans* could be improved instead of trolling in *Eclipse* forums and posting OffTopic advertisments for your product.
I'll give you a little hint: Behaving like this will only get you ignored, as it's childish, useless behaviour. If your product can't compete on its own merits, and it needs people like you shoving it down peoples throats... well... can't be much of a product then, can it?
Sorry to sound rude, but it seems like Sun seems to use these practices all over the place (Sun bitching about MS, Sun bitching about IBM, Sun bitching about Redhat, Sun bitching about Eclipse,...). You all sound like you have nothing better to do than annoy everybody else...
Re: This has to be frustrating....
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/bleonard/archive/2005/09/netbeans_take_2.htmlmurphee (Werner Schuster) wrote:
>>Let us know if the comparison is fair, and if you
>>have some free cycles, how NetBeans could do even
>>better there.
>
>
> How about you ask *Netbeans* users how *Netbeans* could be improved instead of trolling in *Eclipse* forums and posting OffTopic advertisments for your product.
>
> I'll give you a little hint: Behaving like this will only get you ignored, as it's childish, useless behaviour. If your product can't compete on its own merits, and it needs people like you shoving it down peoples throats... well... can't be much of a product then, can it?
>
> Sorry to sound rude, but it seems like Sun seems to use these practices all over the place (Sun bitching about MS, Sun bitching about IBM, Sun bitching about Redhat, Sun bitching about Eclipse,...). You all sound like you have nothing better to do than annoy everybody else...
Re: This has to be frustrating....
Hi Werner,the main reason I am on this thread is that I am part of the GlassFish Java EE 5 open source application server team, and I am starting the supervision of an Eclipse wtp plugin for this application server.
As I said, my goal is to help the J2EE/Java EE developers, including the developers using Eclipse. I am interested in the overall developer experience (both the generic J2EE features of an IDE like Eclipse, and how an extension plugin can offer app server specific integration).
Thanks,
Ludo
Re: This has to be frustrating....
ludo wrote:> the main reason I am on this thread is that I am part of the GlassFish Java
> EE 5 open source application server team, and I am starting the supervision
> of an Eclipse wtp plugin for this application server.
Oh My God.... This actually is the truth, nothing else but the sad, naked,
harmful truth:
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/ludo/
Now, there must be some award of some kind for things like that
Laurent
Re: This has to be frustrating....
>How about you ask *Netbeans* users how *Netbeans* could be improved instead of trolling in *Eclipse* forums and posting OffTopic advertisments for your product.>If your product can't compete on its own merits,...
Ludo merely responded to a question and brought up in the process other related shortcomings of Eclipse.
A bit defensive aren't we? Especially since it was an Eclipse developer complaining about the lack of merit in Eclipse's web app development tool. Not to be rude but...an Eclipse developer complains about the tool he is using and someone does the same example with NetBeans - this should have relevance to developers (Eclipse developers and others). This is hardly trolling.
Here's a hint. If you are so scared of comparison - avoid developer forums all-together.
The comparison :
http://weblogs.java.net/blog/bleonard/archive/2005/09/netbeans_take_2.html
has relavance to this discussion. If nothing else it shows how far behind Eclipse is and what Eclipse needs to do to compete.
Cheers.
Charles
Re: This has to be frustrating....
You ARE rude. What is it that you think that I am advertising here? And
what
makes you think I am trolling in Eclipse when a fellow developer gave me a
pointer
to try out Eclipse? At least someone else in this newsgroup thread
recognizes the
value of feedback.
Here is my point of view regarding vendors in general but since I am using
an
IDE tool I will focus on this thread:
[On Soapbox]
If the IDE vendor/developer/supplier wants customers to use their product,
then they
would need to be proactive and consider feedback from their customers. If
vendors
do not make it easy for customers to provide feedback or wish to financially
drain their
customers who want to feedback - they will find themselves out of business,
eventually.
If they do not listen to their customers, then they will no longer remain in
business. I don't
care if they offer it for free. If the IDE tools is a PAIN to use, or if
they put in banner
adds or other hooks to monitor or steal code, or do any deceptive things to
their customers,
they will that customer and maybe many others by word of mouth. I wanted to
state this
and make this clear that I am just ONE customer - and I will choose the
tool(s) that works
for me. If they are especially good to me and good to their customers, then
we can do
business together. Welcome to free enterprises and competition and I am
glad that no
one vendor can claim everything for themselves and kill the competition.
Without the
competition, everything becomes stale and stagnant. IMHO, all (IDE) vendors
should not rest on their laurels if they wish to remain in force.
[Off Soapbox]
Now, since being a developer myself, I have personally used *many* different
tools
and this includes IDE's. I have 20+ years of experience in using these
things. I have
used *many* different IDE's besides IBM, Microsoft and Sun. I find that
each IDE
vendor has their 'flavor' and each has it's own advantages and
disadvantages. If enough
people like myself write to complain or offer points of view in the type of
experiences one
gets into, hopefully with suggestions on how to improve it, I would hope
that the IDE
developers/vendors appreciate this feedback. Please keep in mind... that
ignoring your
customers or "chewing them out" will not win any accolades.
By the way... Yes. I have also tried NetBeans too. And there are problems
with
their IDE too. I have complained there as well. I have to state that they
are intuitive
and I make no bones about it, but they are not perfect in every way, but who
is?
Now, since this is an Eclipse newsgroup, I will talk about Eclipse and from
what I see
is that Eclipse is an impressive piece of work. But due to the complexity of
the IDE
tool and the tool being 'all things to all things', there are some serious
pitfalls using it.
My goal again is very simple - feedback - and hopefully those that care can
take
a look and try to improve on Eclipse shortcomings due to my feedback.
Pitfall #1, IMHO is the learning curve since the IDE is 'different' from my
experiences
aforementioned above. Well, what's new here. Not really much but it IS a
problem
since if developers find they have to do a *LOT* of reading and learning how
to use
a tool because it is non-intuitive - they will abandon it. Same goes for
buggy code that
prevents them from using it. The more a hindrance it becomes, they will
abandon it.
I think the goal here is to IMPROVE the interface, REDUCE the learning
curve, take
PROACTIVE steps to constantly work and rework the tool for the benefit of
your
customers - after all - you want to win them on your side, right? I am not
implying
that these things I mentioned above is stating that the Eclipse team is not
doing the
above - I am stating that IF these things are not attended to - then there
are
consequences that is, you lose customers. DUH, a no brainer I am sure.
Pitfall #2 is setup and configuration. Again, being "all things to all
things", it
is not easy to get started. Some things are needed/required and some
mechanisms
are lacking to ease this transition. To note in this case - adaptors. Try
to add support
for a J2EE or a Servlet that is not already supported in the IDE. You have
to take
MANUAL steps in the right places to even get started. Another learning
curve.
Also, try to get a new application or product into Eclipse. You have many
applications
available from many vendors and so on and you'd wonder how all of this can
work together
seamlessly? Will adding these application clash with other applications?
Anyone care to
explain? Can you run these applications simultaneously? Can you add the new
application
into Eclipse without being forced to knowing the underlying/low-level