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Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
URL: NB5.0
At 3:01 AM on Sep 10, 2005, Ed Burnette
wrote:
Description:
Marks in the editor's right side bar highlight errors, warnings, TODOs and bookmarks in your source code. In the top part of the bar, the Error Stripe also provides a global status box allowing for a very quick overview whether the source code is compilable or not.
How about a little contest? Whoever can spot the most features in NB5 that are borrowed from Eclipse wins $10 through Paypal. It's all in good fun.
20 replies so far (
Post your own)
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
You just set yourself up for being pointed out how every feature in Eclipse is copied from IDEA.Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
> You just set yourself up for being pointed out how> every feature in Eclipse is copied from IDEA.
Some Eclipse features are borrowed from IDEA and some IDEA features are borrowed from Eclipse. Heck, some features in Eclipse, IDEA, and NetBeans are borrowed from Visual Studio, Smalltalk, Turbo Pascal, Emacs, and even older programs. As long as you're not suggesting the borrowing is all one way, then there's no problem.
It would be interesting to trace where some of these features came from originally. For example who had the idea to underline or highlight syntax errors? SAS has done something like that for years, for example,
4 data a; x = 1 ffff; run; ---- 22 ERROR 22-322: Syntax error, expecting one of the following: ...Does that count?
Author, Google Web Toolkit, Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide, Eclipse in Action
ZDNet blogger, Dev Connection; former Top Eclipse Ambassador.
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
How weird. I don't know what to think. Anyway, once you guys are at it, there are a few places worth looking on netbeans.orgI also started a new thread on javalobby front page about NB 5.0. Your feedback is very much welcome.
--trung
PS: the How to import Eclipse projects" says 4.1 beta . This is an error. 4.1 was released a while ago. I'll ask our web guys to fix it.
PPS: while browsing netbeans.org today I got to this very old document . Eclipse fans may find it familiar too. It was written by a few NetBeans committers sometime in 2000, three years before Eclipse reinvented RCP.
NetBeans -- the open source IDE and Rich Client Platform, in pure Java
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
> Some Eclipse features are borrowed from IDEA and some> IDEA features are borrowed from Eclipse. Heck, some
I really think that in this case the borrowing is 90% in the direction IDEA->Eclipse. Very many interesting features in Eclipse were pioneered by IDEA before anyone mentioned eclipse.
Of course, there is also CodeGuide (aka X-Develop), which some say was even earlier in the market with realtime-compilation, code-completion and error-detection.
christian
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
> IDEA->Eclipsemeaning Eclipse is on the receiving end, of course
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
> Eclipse fans may find it> familiar too. It was written by a few NetBeans
> committers sometime in 2000, three years before
> Eclipse reinvented RCP.
So it *was* Sun and the Netbeans team that held back the Java desktop development for half a decade by slacking off when it came to pushing an RCP platform.
The Netbeans team suffera from the Smalltalk weenie syndrom (http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?SmugSmalltalkWeenie), ie. keep on harping on how they thought of concepts first and how they're confused why people didn't drop everything and use their solution, and how clueless people are who dare to use the pragmatic, existing solutions (just look at the hate tirades by some of the more infantile Netbeans promoters).
The fact is: the Eclipse foundation just managed to build a great solution, with great tools and that has appeals to people.
You see... I've been programming Java for 7+ years, and I'm just getting too old to deal with the crap that Swing programming is. Sure, you can do marvellous things with it (just watch Romain Guys weblog and work), but that doesn't help me if I have to completely start from scratch for every tiny GUI app. I've been watching Sun promise miracles for years; each upcoming release was "the one", that would bring GUI bliss and perfect GUI toolkit speed and perfect native LnF. Well... lets just say that hasn't happened yet...
So... the hurdle that the Netbeans team is facing is this loss of trust of Java developers. You surely won't get this back by sniping at other solutions or by looking smug... mostly because people won't care they already have a great,well documented, well supported platform available.
Having said all that: good luck with the 5.0 release.
Start your own contest
> > IDEA->Eclipse>
> meaning Eclipse is on the receiving end, of course
Hey, start your own contest!
Here's the Eclipse 3.1 New and noteworty page: New and noteworthy . Have at it.
We could do a whole series: for a certain feature in {Eclipse, NetBeans, IDEA, etc.} identify prior art.
(Actually, it wouldn't be bad practice for the next time somebody tries to assert a patent on some obvious UI gimmick.)
Author, Google Web Toolkit, Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide, Eclipse in Action
ZDNet blogger, Dev Connection; former Top Eclipse Ambassador.
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
Hmm, "re-invented", nice zinger.It doesn't really matter. Is everybody so hung up on the whole "X stole from Y" argument that nobody even wants to play the game? C'mon, lighten up.
Author, Google Web Toolkit, Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide, Eclipse in Action
ZDNet blogger, Dev Connection; former Top Eclipse Ambassador.
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
Man, you started this thread not me.NetBeans -- the open source IDE and Rich Client Platform, in pure Java
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
> > Eclipse fans may find it> > familiar too. It was written by a few NetBeans
> > committers sometime in 2000, three years before
> > Eclipse reinvented RCP.
>
> So it *was* Sun and the Netbeans team that held back
> the Java desktop development for half a decade by
> slacking off when it came to pushing an RCP platform.
>
>
> The Netbeans team suffera from the Smalltalk weenie
> syndrom
> (http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?SmugSmalltalkWeenie), ie.
> keep on harping on how they thought of concepts first
> and how they're confused why people didn't drop
> everything and use their solution, and how clueless
> people are who dare to use the pragmatic, existing
> solutions (just look at the hate tirades by some of
> the more infantile Netbeans promoters).
well, to make it crystal clear, I didn't start this thread. And personally I don't care about the past. The present and the future is more important. I only found it a bit weird when I saw this thread.
You know the good engineers invent ideas, the best ones steal ideas. I am not upset when I saw people stealing ideas from NB. It forces us to work harder which is fine.
>
> The fact is: the Eclipse foundation just managed to
> build a great solution, with great tools and that has
> appeals to people.
> You see... I've been programming Java for 7+ years,
> and I'm just getting too old to deal with the crap
> that Swing programming is. Sure, you can do
> marvellous things with it (just watch Romain Guys
> weblog and work), but that doesn't help me if I have
> to completely start from scratch for every tiny GUI
> app. I've been watching Sun promise miracles for
> years; each upcoming release was "the one", that
> would bring GUI bliss and perfect GUI toolkit speed
> and perfect native LnF. Well... lets just say that
> hasn't happened yet...
Let's say we agree to disagree
>
> So... the hurdle that the Netbeans team is facing is
> this loss of trust of Java developers. You surely
> won't get this back by sniping at other solutions or
> by looking smug... mostly because people won't care
> they already have a great,well documented, well
> supported platform available.
I don't really get it. Do you still program in Java?
>
> Having said all that: good luck with the 5.0 release.
Thanks
--trung
NetBeans -- the open source IDE and Rich Client Platform, in pure Java
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
> Hmm, "re-invented", nice zinger.> that the vision document says "NetBeans started as a
> Java IDE". I've read other quotes that said NetBeans
> was a Platform from day one. Which is right?
we factored out the core part of the IDE to make it into a Platform in 1998/1999. So I was right, day one in the morning it was a bit monolithic, but after lunch we made the change, still day one
>
> It doesn't really matter. Is everybody so hung up on
> the whole "X stole from Y" argument that nobody even
> wants to play the game? C'mon, lighten up.
agreed. Let's close this whole thread and make a deal you and me won't create a similar one in the future. Okay?
NetBeans -- the open source IDE and Rich Client Platform, in pure Java
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
a New ANT editor that works according to ANT standards for java projects instead of the un-standard way in NB3-4Nothing wrong with borrowing, why not admit it?
> Let's close this whole thread and make a> deal you and me won't create a similar one in the
> future. Okay?
I can't make that deal because it's a good way to get people involved in talking about the features and cross-polinating ideas. However I'll try to always make a point that borrowing features is ok, especially if one improves upon the original.
I think this just increases the pace of innovation as one person or team builds upon the work on another. So you could say, "Yes, we got the idea for the these kinds of error markers from product X and product Y, but we've improved on them in the following way: ...". What's the harm in admitting that?
For example, the VE developers have admitted that they've gotten some good ideas for VE features from Mattise and they're going to try to improve on them using their own unique perspective and requirements.
Now if X and Y were open source, the SAME open source license, they could share not only ideas but also code. Unfortunately the OSS license universe is so fractured right now that's not possible.
Author, Google Web Toolkit, Eclipse IDE Pocket Guide, Eclipse in Action
ZDNet blogger, Dev Connection; former Top Eclipse Ambassador.
Re: Contest: Hmm, that looks familiar
> un-standard way in NB3-4?Can you be more specific? What the IDE generates in an ant build script. We didn't modify Apache Ant in any way so we can't possibly make it unstandard.
NetBeans -- the open source IDE and Rich Client Platform, in pure Java